Anti - M website...wtf?!

Pink_Floyd · Oct 28, 2003

heefner said:

Shut the **** up. You say you feel bad for the guy because we all attacket him? Well he was the one that started his peice of shit website stating that he "hated" certain cars, including the BMW M's. If he made a site for his mitsubishi no one would have bothered him. Even if he said it was the greatest car in the world no one would have said anything and let it be. But he started with the hate and he is just getting what he deserves.

... You have no place here.

Wadula · Oct 28, 2003

the new m? heck with their current designs i will rather buy an old bmw or an audi....

to your first sentence in your last post. what did you expect when someone sees a page like that and actualy is a bimmer nut? i can post an anti mitsu site or **** starion site by tomorrow and i bet you would not like it. actualy, i think you would take the link and carry it to your folks too. wouldn't you? i mean that's just normal and nothing to get pissed off for. we start behave like soccer fans from england and netherlands. whereever they meet each other a head or two roll...we should be more mature than that and stay out of the other ones business as far as that is concerned.

mikev · Oct 28, 2003

Wadula said:

***Useless Info Warning***

The starion name only came about due to stupidity and poor communication. the origional name was Stallion unfortunatly when the japanese manager called the US to announce the name the fool in America didn't realise that the japanese had a japanese accent and wrote down starion instead.

Wadula · Oct 28, 2003

for real??? muuaaahhaaa.....well another reason why i like that we are dealing with numbers at BMW.

in germany mitsubishi offers an off-road verhicle named pajero. in spain pajero means wanker/tosser/mothaf***. wouldn't that create some strange confusion? i knew about some more of that kind but unfortunately it's the same as with jokes. i just can't keep them in mind.

indy_85stariones · Oct 28, 2003

Still, posting his home address was very disrespectful. Not to mention the verbal threats.

This is humorous, but it is also URBAN LEGEND. In astronomy, the brightest star in the night time sky called Sirius. This is part of the constellation, Canis Major, commonly known as the Greater Dog. This represents Orion's larger hunting dog.

The Starion was sold in Japan, before coming over to the U.S. market in 1983. Outside of the U.S., the car utilized the "Sirius 2000 ECI Turbo engine".

http://www.sageserve.com/~jacquieg/DogStar.html
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs6/history/html/starion.htm

This is Urban Legend...
1) The Japanese named it "Starion" a full year before it was introduced to the U.S. Market
2) The Sirius engine fits nicely with "Star of Orion"
3) The "Stallion" story first appeared in a car magazine in 1991 -- 2 years after the last Starion was produced.

DOESN'T ANYONE KNOW HOW TO ACCEPT AN APOLOGY ANYMORE?????

epj3 · Oct 28, 2003

its like the GM lacrosse that means masturbator in canada.

Wadula · Oct 28, 2003

@indy

for real? shoot, that would have been a nice story with the name. you just took the last illusion from me....damn you [hihi]

as far as the appologies go, maybe the sh*t up was not directed as an answer to the appology but the post in general. Normally the guys here are easy going, but when it comes to homeland invasion, they get nasty [hihi]

(you know i am exaggerating and kidding here). however, it seems as if this thread comes to its end anyway as the parties see that everyone made his point but anyone can be convinced. i mean, let's call it a day.

Wadula · Oct 28, 2003

epj3 said:

for real? can anyone from canada confirm that please???? [thumb]

Bryan330i · Oct 28, 2003

christobal65 said:

188 HP, and that makes a difference??? Have you looked at the M3's that you guys claim to beat? They have far better performance than this, for more HP, far better time.

Bryan330i · Oct 28, 2003

christobal65 said:

What does this have to do with anything? You should look at cost of ownership. Say a $40k Cadilac and a $55k BMW 540. The cost of ownership for the Cadilac for 5 years is likely going to be much higher. Same is true for the Mitsubishi and the BMW. The Eclipse has a cash price of only $20,820 but a 5 year ownership cost of $36,493. The BMW has a cash price of $34,741 and a 5 year ownership cost of $40,215. So the BMW with a cash price of over $14,000 more only had a 5 year owmership cost of $3722. more than the Eclipse. This is information from Edmunds.com and shows the hugh quality difference between the two and value retention.

Here is the Eclipe, ranked VERY HIGH COST OF OWNERSHIP!!!!
5 year cost $36,493.00 [ohcrap]

True Cost to Own* $36,493 view details
Total Cash Price $20,820 view details
Average Cost per Mile* $0.49 compare similar vehicles
True Cost to Own Ratings**
operating cost
$$$$ hi

depreciation cost
$$$$ hi

* This is a 5-year estimate (based on 15,000 miles per year).
** Ratings are determined for a specific vehicle category

Based on regional costs for Zip Code:

True Cost to Own

Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5-yr Total
Depreciation $7,385 $1,847 $1,625 $1,440 $1,292 $13,589
Financing $910 $728 $536 $333 $120 $2,627
Insurance $1,076 $1,114 $1,153 $1,193 $1,235 $5,771
Taxes & Fees $1,660 $363 $323 $283 $246 $2,875
Fuel $1,131 $1,165 $1,200 $1,236 $1,273 $6,005
Maintenance $481 $694 $592 $1,564 $1,718 $5,049
Repairs $0 $0 $37 $216 $324 $577

Yearly Totals $12,643 $5,911 $5,466 $6,265 $6,208 $36,493

BMW 325i

True Cost to Own* $40,215 view details
Total Cash Price $34,741 view details
Average Cost per Mile* $0.54 compare similar vehicles
True Cost to Own Ratings**
operating costlo$$
depreciation costlo$

* This is a 5-year estimate (based on 15,000 miles per year).
** Ratings are determined for a specific vehicle category

Based on regional costs for Zip Code:

True Cost to Own

Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5-yr Total
Depreciation $5,649 $3,339 $2,938 $2,603 $2,337 $16,866
Financing $1,518 $1,214 $894 $556 $200 $4,382
Insurance $1,137 $1,177 $1,218 $1,261 $1,305 $6,098
Taxes & Fees $2,398 $515 $457 $398 $343 $4,111
Fuel $1,131 $1,165 $1,200 $1,236 $1,273 $6,005
Maintenance $0 $0 $0 $366 $1,510 $1,876
Repairs $0 $0 $0 $333 $544 $877

Yearly Totals $11,833 $7,410 $6,707 $6,753 $7,512 $40,215

manuel · Oct 28, 2003

dang, nice stats.

UltimateLurker · Oct 28, 2003

I normally try to steer clear of these type of threads, but I'll respond to this one as I'm quite fond of the M-Cars and the SQ (Starion/Conquest).

All of you should know that I've had my differences with Art in the past, I hate the name of his website, and feel that it is for the most part, a load of crap.

However, I'm certain the man can drive, it's his hobby, and I'd advise most of you with more powerful cars to take great care if you ever meet him on the track, he has quite a fair amount of knowledge about the SQ, suspension tuning, and driving.

Now, if you're going to compare cars, might as well compare apples to apples.

'88 SQ specs (Road & Track Dec-'88):

HP = 188
Torque = 232 lb ft
Best ¼ = 15.4
Lat g. = .82
Slalom = 62.9
Top Speed = 135 mph (est.)
Total Delivery price = $20,635

'88 M3 specs (Road & Track Feb-'88)

HP = 192
Torque = 170
Best ¼ = 15.4
lat g. = .82
Slalom = 63.9
Top Speed = 143 mph
Total Delivery Price = $34,000

Now, look at the #'s, quite similar aren't they? In fact, the only reason for the BMW's slightly better #'s in some area's is weight, look at the Torque disadvantage. But let me point out where they differ mostly;

1. The price (the BMW gives up a heafty $13,365 to the SQ).
2. Modability (simply installing a K&N air filter, MBC, and HKS exhaust set the SQ owner back $425.00 but netted the car 235 HP! That's a gain of 47 HP and easily enough to dethrone the M3). Now, I'm not saying that the M3 couldn't be modded, but it wouldn't respond to it's mods as aggressively since it was N/A.

For it's time the SQ was the Japanese equivalent of a Mustang in terms of bang for the buck, and you better believe that mildly-modded SQ owners were more than happy to upset much more expensive cars like the M3, RX-7, and 300ZX's (not to mention the 944 T). I could take this little comparo farther, but there's no real need, the cars were, and still are, made for different things (M3/GTO).

Personally, I adore the new M3, but it's too much of a luxury car for my taste (I recently sold my S2000 in favor of the upcoming Lotus Elise), but there's no denying that the M3 is excellence incarnate.

One last thing I'd like to say; I've owned several fun cars...

'84 RX-7
'86 MR-2
'87 Conquest TSi (2)
'87 Starion
'89 Conquest TSi
'97 MX-5 Miata
'01 S2000

No other car has captured me like the SQ, my S2K would run a 13.5 ¼, do 77 mph in the slalom, 1.3g on the skidpad, and 161 mph, yet while owning my S2K I did purchase a Starion to tinker with. It's a weird hold these cars have over their owners, not entirely explainable really, and I find myself wondering if the M-Cars have such a hold on their owners.

Bryan330i · Oct 28, 2003

UltimateLurker said:

1. The price (the BMW gives up a heafty $13,365 to the SQ).

One thing to consider when you but a car. The $13,365 more for the BMW shows over time. Some people say how can "they" afford a BMW. I say how can "they" not??? Do you realize the cost of the Starion? After 5 years there is almost no value left.

manuel · Oct 28, 2003

the starion is not an ugly car, looks good...and i think what people do not think much about is what you said..."cars were, and still are, made for different things". i probably tinker with my brothers protege more than i do with my 328...though, that doesnt reflect the "love" for my car.( which runs better and is quicker than his [fake] )

mrferg · Oct 28, 2003

Wadula said:

Yes they are ugly, but a V8 powered M4 and a V10 powered M5? drooling... [^]

I'll take a big V10 over a turbocharged Geo 3cyl anyday! [hihi]

atsiauto · Oct 28, 2003

I enjoy BMW's saw a few at carlisle this year Id have to sell my other 7 cars to afford one, I think we Starion owners enjoy the rareness and the "hands on" + networking that it takes to bring say a 500 dollar car to an eye catching restoration w Power to humiliate some of the local talent . Theres always somebody else w more $$ in theirs that will pound on you and I accept that . Lets face it the Starquest is a vehicle that does not fit in very well with the whole import "scene" its not FWD its OLD by todays standards and was limited to its stock Throttle body design to about 225 WHP (W mods) adding some goodies to it will make it respectable.
We are very dedicated to these cars as are you to BMW and I hope that we can agree on somthing . Art has made several kits available to us adapting known parts to allow us to go faster stop quicker and corner better than ever He tries hard to help out the community . I respect his efforts and I respect your site as well . Scotty

mrferg · Oct 28, 2003

C'mon seriously people let's make peace. Yea that one guy was a doof for making that site ( no offense.) We have alot more in common than you'd think, we all do have RWD cars, we all care about performance. Can't we all just let these arguements die?[|)]

Wadula · Oct 28, 2003

isn't that what i said posts ago? and isn't it funny how many starion/stallion fans are around here now? tom we should consider an own forum for our new guests [hihi]

UltimateLurker · Oct 28, 2003

Bryan330i said:

I understand what you're saying, but your own theory will work against you in the case of true cost of ownership, BMW's are notoriously expensive to maintain, which certainly isn't the case with the SQ.

I'd also be careful with saying things like "after 5 years there is almost no value left", that's a blanket statement, and trust me, the SQ has always had a following, so it most certainly had value after 5 years and still to this day.

I did take the liberty to do a search on Autotrader.com for '88 M-Cars, I was astounded at the prices I saw, but I'm putting a nice average car in the $12K value range, quite a feat for such an old car.

However, an average nice '88 SQ will cost you only about $3K, which is about $9K difference, and since the M cost $13K more originally, I'd say the BMW lost $4K more value than the SQ in the last 15 years. Let us not forget that as far as retail sales went, BMW buyers paid closer to sticker price than SQ owners, this is a simple fact.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news for you, but the numbers are the numbers. Now, we don't even want to get into the REAL cost of ownership for those 2 cars over the last 15 years, do we?

I think not.

Play your car's high-card, the fact that it's beautiful, better engineered, a slightly better performer bone stock, and a wonderful car. But don't forget that SQ's have high-cards as well, you just may have not had occasion to speak to someone who knows how to play those cards.

UltimateLurker · Oct 28, 2003

Wadula said:

Forgive me, I wasn't aware this particular forum wasn't open to guests, I wouldn't have posted save to spill a little reason that the last 6 pages of this thread were void of.

I'm not here to argue, I'm a statition, and the #'s are the #'s.

Anti - M website...wtf?!

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